Expats Like Us
A podcast series exploring life as a U.S. Expat in Mexico. Topics include preparing to move to a new country, navigating your new home and finding your passion as a retiree.
Expats Like Us
Building a House and Creating a Home in Mexico
Trading a familiar homeland for the allure of an expat life often reads like a dream, until reality's fine print emerges in bold. Embrace the candid tales from our Canadian friends, Walter and Shawnee, as they unveil the gritty and the gratifying aspects of building a home in Mexico's Riviera Maya. Amidst tales of transitioning from hobbyist gardeners to Expat life, this week's episode chronicles the true essence of building not just a house, but a home in a land woven with cultural intricacies and bureaucratic labyrinths.
We are incredibly thankful for engagement and stories from our listeners, who have found their own sense of 'home' across the globe. Stay tuned as we continue to share the wisdom and wanderlust of those who've charted their unique international courses. We'd love to hear your comments and questions. Email them to expatslikeus@gmail.com
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But are you going to build the house? Yeah, just go to the store and buy the two biggest jar of headache medication that you can pick and it says white tube. I said, and it says if you're going to go through the first one, but if you open the second one you are in trouble. So that's we have. Luckily enough we still have the second intact and we haven't gone through much of the first one yet.
Speaker 2:Welcome to ExPATs Like Us. A co-production with me, vita Margarita, exploring the world of US ExPat Life in Mexico. In each episode, we'll meet new people and hear their stories. You'll also learn more about ExPat Life and get a few tips on everything from making your move to settling in, to living your dreams and, most of all, having fun. Let's dive in. Welcome to ExPATs Like Us. I'm your host, bob Bussey.
Speaker 3:And I'm Chris Kowalski.
Speaker 2:We're happy to welcome our friends and neighbors Walter Vetterell and Shawnee Lansiedel to this week's edition of ExPATs Like Us. Like many of us, walter and Shawnee sold their home a couple of years ago and said adios to snow and cold. For them, it was western Canada to make their home in Mexico. However, instead of buying a condo or an existing house, they bought an unfinished lot and embarked on an adventure of building in Mexico. Hi, walter and Shawnee, and welcome to ExPATs Like Us.
Speaker 4:Hello, thank you, it's good to have you Thanks for coming today.
Speaker 2:So tell us a little bit about your life in Canada before you move here.
Speaker 4:So, career wise, I worked mostly in banking and then I moved into working for the Ministry of Agriculture. That was, for the provincial government. Walter it was a self-employed electrician and he worked also for SkyTrain, which is a rapid transit system in Vancouver, in the lower mainland, in British Columbia, canada. And so we had met about 11 years ago and discovered that we had some common interests. We ended up deciding to buy an acreage, and the reason that that came about is one of our earlier dates that we had. I invited Walter over for dinner. I had a meatloaf that was wrapped in bacon that was ready for the oven.
Speaker 2:That's the way to a man's heart, actually, right.
Speaker 4:Walter says that was a good start. And then I asked him what would you like a salad with dinner? And he said sure, I head out to grab my hat, grab my basket, head out to the backyard, pick some lettuce and all sorts of things for a salad out of my garden, came back in and he was shocked. He thought, well, thought I was going to go to the fridge, not to the garden. And so that's when we kind of started to realize that, yeah, this is becoming a common interest.
Speaker 4:We want to do more creating, more planning, maybe even do a larger garden at some point, and, as we ought to know each other better, we found this acreage and that acreage was transformed into really a small farm. We had 27 fruit trees, 18 berry bushes, 20 raised garden beds, a greenhouse. We were really looking at ways to sustain ourselves with produce, between storing that produce and I'm a canner, so preserving as well and so, as we were getting to know each other, transforming the land and sitting every Saturday morning with our coffee and our paper and pencil and designing different things in the yard, we were able to enjoy those 10 years together. And then, after 2019, our interests went south, literally.
Speaker 2:So was there something that precipitated that or what made you decide to move?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so in 2019, we actually went to Mexico, to this Riviera side of Mexico. And this kind of leads us into the next question really, why did we choose the Riviera Maya? Why did we choose to come south? So for many years I've come to, I've traveled to Mexico, mostly the West Coast side, because that's where it is, most of my life, easiest, closest place between two boys Exactly it's super easy A four, four and a half hour plane ride, very, very simple.
Speaker 4:And then, after Walter and I met, we continued to travel down to Mexico and one of the usual normal conversations we would have on the plane ride coming home was would you want to live in Mexico? Would you want to do the six months, six months thing after we retire? And the answer was always yeah, but nothing really spoke to us on that side of Mexico. So we decided, okay, let's meet up with Walter's brother on the other side of Mexico, because in proximity to where his brother and wife live, it made more sense to come to this side of Mexico. I fell fast in love with this side of Mexico. I could not believe how beautiful it was.
Speaker 4:So before long we were talking to a realtor in the clubhouse and the realtor went around and showed us condos, townhomes, already built homes. And then he just happened to be talking with Walter and said, yeah, and I just bought a lot here. Well then Walter's ears just perked up and he thought, wow, this is interesting, can you take me to where you bought your lot? So we had a look at his lot and we got a plan of the residential area that was most attractive to us. And then we found ourselves at our favorite beach one day and Walter says to me so you know, between a scale of one to 10, where are you in terms of living here full time After we retire? Just live here full time. And I said without hesitation, I'm at about a nine, and Walter says holy oh.
Speaker 2:All right, that's pretty high on the scale.
Speaker 4:Pretty high and he says, wow, I was only at a five.
Speaker 2:So did that raise you up to about a seven or eight?
Speaker 1:That was just sold right there and the lot. At the time we were not retired yet and so with the purchase of the lot it kind of gave us the time frame in order to go back, think about retirement, you know, rearranging everything in Canada and then so because just the lot was empty, Stay there, Stay longer. But then something that COVID hit and that's kind of a decision was made. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a common theme amongst literally everybody that we've talked to is, well, we're doing this and that we're thinking of moving, and then COVID hit. That is a common thing for everybody, yeah, so that really affected a lot of yeah.
Speaker 1:it made you rethink a lot. We were working from home out of one point and then decided, well, this is just, we need to change. So yeah, in 2022, February 2022, we were here. We had started the design of the house and that was a project on itself. Every Saturday and Sunday morning, with briefs, lots of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, back to the paper and we already had all the paperwork done when we got here for designing and approvals from the country club not from the city or the state or so and then the whole other episode started. Something like we. Then we find out all the requirements that we're going to be talking about in a minute.
Speaker 2:So what made you guys decide? You know, most of us come down here, chris and I, you know we came down here Bada Kondo, that's it. Here we are. What I mean was it because you guys had a big lot and you were used to the space?
Speaker 1:That has quite a bit to do with it. We wanted to have some space. I'm a hands-on type of person and I needed a project. I mean, I wasn't coming here to be, you know, just to drink margaritas on the beach, so I needed I don't know. We liked that part. It was going to be our home. We want to have a lot of input. We had family. We were planning for, you know, for guests and family to stay with us, and so, yeah, that was the idea.
Speaker 4:You have a little bit more control, you know, over the building of the house. Have more control in having as many solar panels as we want, have a water source like a cistern you know those things were important and that have a large garden. You know, as you heard earlier, a manavid gardener.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so we haven't put that in practice yet, we're still at the last stages. So the house and the built and the garden, so we still have that to be said. What type of fruits and vegetables have we been having?
Speaker 3:How long have you been in the project as far as once I started construction until this point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, it is a year of construction. Okay, a lot of builders will tell you that it's between eight months to a year. It can be built in eight months a year now and it's going to take us a little bit longer to finish because we are in the finishing stages and you know, if you rush then your quality could be yeah, it goes out. So you have to. I mean, we are having more control on the finishing and the details. And, yeah, when is it going to be finished completely with the last picture on the wall? That's going to be a process. It's going to be two days before we sell.
Speaker 4:That's pretty far there you go.
Speaker 1:That's how that looks, so anyhow.
Speaker 4:Okay go ahead. And then what we didn't anticipate was the amount of administration work, not only that pertain to the house, but also for us. You know, we had to take time to open a bank account, buy a car, so we get out of a rental car to the driver's license and then also making sure that the deed got transferred into our names. Yeah, so yeah, a lot of administration work.
Speaker 1:That was the one video, something that one of the big differences Usually that processing Canada or the US takes two to three days the most, and here it took us seven months. Wow, I wasn't going to start building without with the law and they're our name, so that's but it. It allowed us to really enjoy the lifestyle that we were planning, meeting extremely good people and friends and by the poolside here in this neighborhood, and we, you know, we had to learn the process of opening a bank account and going back and forth three or four times to do certain things, like you know, like paperwork, I was at one point I was shown each that called me one piece of paper, short Walter.
Speaker 2:Somebody went to license your car.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was always a one piece of paper short.
Speaker 4:So yeah, but there was definitely a large learning curve to ride and that year allowed us to do that.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of universal for everybody that moves down here. You know those things you, we all have to do and that's kind of been a theme on here about what we love and what we hate about that sort of things. You know, you guys just have the whole concept of building the house as well. So tell me a little bit about how. Do's construction here differ than what you're you were used to Canada?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, first of all, we got to. You know we can take the whole country. Mexico is a big country. We are in a very fast growing area. It's one of the most expensive part of Mexico to build and, with all the mega projects that happen, it's happening or happen around us in the 2023, have put it a lot of strain in the labor market and the materials.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's, you know, like that would be the little bit more difficult and but the difference was the. I mean, the first one to me is the bureaucratic, like the seven months to get the deed, the permits process, the three levels of government that you had to deal. Then how, for example, here in Tulum, there is no inspections. The city, neither the state, does inspections, for example, like we've had in Canada. You know, plumbing, electrical, building, structural and so on. There's not basically a government or agency to control the type of built.
Speaker 1:So the owner and has to be aware and he has to get involved to make it the to get what you really want in order to there are reputable construction companies and engineers and architects, but the ultimate, if you want a well built home, I think it's a, it's a good idea to get in to follow what the process of the other built and even though that may be discourage for somebody that would like to build and it says, no, I don't want to get involved in the build of my house, you have to be aware that every house that is already built has gone through the same system. So there is that. What type of product are you going to get at the end?
Speaker 2:So do you think that a lot of people come down here and don't realize that and just kind of find a kind of because a contractor is going to say, don't worry about it, Don't worry about it Come back a year and you can move in your beautiful home. That's correct. I imagine that that can be a issue.
Speaker 1:They have a term for that and it's key in hand. They have that key in hand, so they have it. You just sign the contract and that will build your house. For me, particularly, that has a lot of variables, to say the least. I mean, what type of faucet are you going to provide, what type of finishing, what type of electrical and or plumbing and so on? So they are good contractors here, very responsible, good work.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, you have some of them that they will try to cut corners and sometimes it is not really something that is in their control. For example, one of the issues that we had in 2023, and you follow that closely it was the peso gaining strength over the dollar. So that was 10%, 15% of what the Canadian dollar. So suddenly you sign a contract in US and now you get 15% or 20% or 15% less pesos. So the contractor is going to say, well, something had to move in that. So sometimes there are things that are away from the control of the both parties. I mean, they build there on the owner. So, yeah, that happened. So we'll you know.
Speaker 2:I can see that's something that people wouldn't think about. The fluctuation in the exchange rate and just the money issues that we have fluctuates all the time, I mean even more than just the interest rate, but also Walter mentioned earlier about how the price of materials can change.
Speaker 4:The minimum wage rate can go up. So these things can increase while the builder is trying to build your home Back in Canada when you sign for a contractor to build your home, because they can build homes quicker in Canada based on our experience so far in comparison here that fluctuation doesn't play in as much, but here that has been a tough experience.
Speaker 2:It swings all over the place here. I mean, I think all of us have experienced that, but we're not committed to a really big home or a nice home like you guys are, but we've all experienced that in the last year or so.
Speaker 3:Corruption as far as government officials wanting to bribe to get things done quicker. Did you come across anything like that?
Speaker 1:He come across that. But everything can be avoided. You can. One thing in my favor I had to say the language I'm fluent in, spanish, and that I can go and talk to the people in the city if I need to. So it happens. But for me, what is it? Not so much the cost of the permit, Because I mean, in Vancouver, 60% of the cost of the building a house is permits and paperwork, so it's pretty high. And so we don't call it corruption, we just call it that that's how it works.
Speaker 4:How?
Speaker 3:it works.
Speaker 1:So here is that's what. I don't really lean on that word because it is the cost For me. I would like to see more improvements in the city roads, the lighting, that type of thing where the money goes more than anything else, but no.
Speaker 4:It is true. I mean, we've had to pay several times to get something done, and it's not just to get it done quicker. You pay this incentive and it's, but, like Walter says, when you compare it to the cost of permits to building Canada, it's relative. Because, it's relative Sure.
Speaker 2:So, walter, with your background in construction and your fluency in Spanish Spanish your first language, I would say yes and understanding of Latin American culture probably more than a lot of us, I'm guessing that makes the process a little easier than it would be for just some gringo that just stepped off the plane and decided to build a building.
Speaker 1:No, actually, my learning curve was after 38 years in Canada. It's, I had a little bit of a learning curve, but for people who then would like to come and build, I have an analogy. I mean, I've seen the people that come here very successful professionals, business people, and with a they have a life experience, huge life experience. So you're a good tennis players, a good tennis player, and you're used to playing a rectangular court. Well, here the court is a big circle, so you're going to have to adapt your game Right and that's, it's simple. I mean, you're going to.
Speaker 1:What I might advise to whoever decides to to take that is to do your homework. Ask a lot of questions, listen to podcasts, find out who is the good, reputable contractors. Go see their work, find out that they need to. You know, like, how the payment system works. Don't find out that a contract is doesn't have the weight that you used to have in Canada or the US. So you know those little things and they are people that they're honest, hardworking, people that will follow, that will help you out that way.
Speaker 1:We were lucky to find them and so I. You know, I cannot say that our experience had been terrible. We had the normal hiccups that anybody building a house would have. A good old friend of mine, a contractor, used to say but are you going to build the house? Yeah, just go to the, you know, to the, to the big, to the store and buy the two biggest jar of headache medication that you can pick. And he says why two? And I said and says, because you're going to go through the first one, but if you open the second one you are in trouble, you know. So that's, we're lucky enough. We still have the second, the second second, intact, and we haven't gone through much of the first one yet. So, but they are hiccups, I mean. So it's expected.
Speaker 4:And here yeah, and I'm being adaptable, I think is something that has helped us a lot, because, yeah, you're, you're gonna, you're gonna run into problems, it's inevitable, but it's really how you deal with them and if you can just kind of keep a cool head and and and be flexible and adaptable, that, yeah, that has helped us all along.
Speaker 1:There's one saying that is being used here the ones that get angry loses. So you have to have a lot of patience. Be, you know there are ways to resolve every problem and you know some people decided different ways, but most of the people that we have encountered it's professional and to realize. I mean, everybody tries to make a buck, which is normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just like everywhere in the world. Exactly.
Speaker 3:So, looking back on the process so far, is there anything you wish that you'd known that you could have maybe headed off some some issues going into this, or is there any kind of advice that you would give?
Speaker 1:expats that are considering. Yeah, I knew very well that the three rules of constructions apply here quality, cost and time. There are three variables that you know you can't get them all Because in the time factor it was the one that really is taken a little longer than expected. I thought the process was going to be a little bit quicker, so there was a cost of renting at the time, and so that's what you know the push and we try to speed up the process, and then, of course, you start losing quality. So that's what if I had an advice? It's just like when you go traveling they tell you take double the money and have the close here, calculate it double the time. You know time is going to be, especially if you're going to be here watching the build and you had to rent as well. So that was one of the variables that it would be nice to shorten it up, but, as I said, you lose control on the quality and the cost. So be patient, be patient, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, shawnee, tell us in your opinion, you know what's something that you would have been more, you want people to be aware of. Or would you have done differently? Not necessarily in just building the house, but in becoming an expat in Mexico?
Speaker 4:Right, Wow, there's probably so many learnings there to share, right? But to you know, to maybe keep it in line with the house, I would say that one thing that was the biggest surprise to me was the amount of administration that was needed to build the house, and we actually interviewed seven builders before we picked one and none of them had mentioned anything about the permit.
Speaker 4:You know how much the permit was going to cost at the city to loom and, for that matter, how much any of the other permits and there's many, many permits that you are responsible for, the builders responsible for. And so that you know, once, we kind of we kept track of our budget the whole way through, and when I see that figure that went to just administration, it was shocking and, to be honest with you, we did not factor that in to the build of our home, right, and now would you?
Speaker 2:You didn't know about it, didn't know about it, so I would definitely want to know that in advance, that you know.
Speaker 4:Maybe sometimes the builder will include that in, but it's a good question to ask. You know, is it built in or are you going to be coming to me for this large permit price? You know, to get that? The plans even approved by the city. So there you have it.
Speaker 2:That's words to live by for people thinking about building a house, because I can see getting caught in that and your budget's tight and oh my.
Speaker 4:God, yeah, definitely the build. There's so many things that you can do. The builders.
Speaker 1:The builders will talk about square meters. You know the cost per square meter taking in the US and kind of, but the all that administration cost is aside and that's kind of a gray area to the. So you're completely right, I mean it's. That was a little bit of a oh wake up call.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what kind of percentage are you talking like 10% of the overall cost, 5%, 25% of the overall cost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're talking about one. Fifth Would you say yeah? One, yeah, but 20% for a market in Australia to go up 10%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So tell us where you're at with your project now I know where it is, but tell our viewers you guys are. You guys are living, yes, in your house, and it's not fully done.
Speaker 1:It's not completely that we. We have a the minimum requirements a working swimming pool, the air conditioner where we are, that's, but yeah, no we have odd priorities.
Speaker 4:We have the pool finished before we have the downstairs.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, there's restaurants around here.
Speaker 1:So and yeah, we are 85% or close and we now we are working on the on the outside of the house and finishing the some requirements that we have to comply with some rock and some Okay, color scheme that we've got approved, doing the driveway that I think okay.
Speaker 2:So Shawnee, we play a game. I don't know if you guys have listened to previous podcast, but we call it Cape Audrey K-Malo. Cape Audrey is things that you think are cool, k-malo things that you don't like so much are still adapting to give me one of each for you personally.
Speaker 4:Okay, well, I have listened to previous okay and I probably agree with pretty much all the Cape Audrey's that you've built with so far right, like the oh, the, the weather, the people, the, the health care, the accessibility to good health care and affordability, so many of them lifestyle, and so for me it it narrowed down to lifestyle.
Speaker 4:I had a certain type of lifestyle that I wanted to. I was hoping to be able to live in my retirement and I knew that that wasn't going to. I was not going to be able to have that lifestyle in Canada. I, and you know, what I was looking for was a slower pace. I was looking to meeting people from all over the world who had like-minded ideas as myself and and weren't living in fear. You know, I Was looking at, hoping to find a place that was more affordable. Let let my your retirement dollars go a little bit further.
Speaker 4:And they and the other thing, the other two things that were really important to me is, you know, I've lived in Canada my whole life and I have seen the laws getting tighter, the the rules Getting more prevalent, the more all-encompassing yeah losing freedom, personal right like I feel like I have been come more regulated by the governments and I Been to Mexico several times I knew that it was a freer sort of like yes, there's laws, there's rules, there's regulations here I'd say there's a bit more common sense here and and that was that was a huge attraction for me. So I appreciate that and I really appreciate the health care system here. I one thing that I was suffering from when living in Canada during COVID is All of a sudden I didn't get to control my old health care anymore.
Speaker 4:That wasn't my choice anymore and I Fortunately, knock on wood have been a healthy individual most of my life and because I have controlled that and so you know. But my my k-padre is I get to have control of my health again and if and I can have affordable. Yeah accessible health care here and yeah.
Speaker 2:So what are you still adapting to or what have you not like so much?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I, you know, I don't know how many times I told Walter I do not want to live in Mexico, you know, for the rest of my life and not know Spanish. I must learn to speak Spanish and it embarrasses me that I have a fluent speaking. It's not a speaking husband. I have no excuse, you know, but I do have a 62 year old mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, it's not like being three years old and you naturally pick up language yeah.
Speaker 4:Hard. It's like I find it extremely hard. So that's something I you know. I just wish I could be I dream a genie and blink and I know the language and a heartbeat, but I know that's not gonna happen and I have to grow patience. We talk about patience earlier. I really need to grow patience and realize that it just is persistence. And I do persist and I am getting better and I will continue to to try, but it comes with.
Speaker 2:It's very tough. If someone would have told me that I would know as little Spanish as I do after living in Mexico for almost three years, I'd have thought you're nuts, I we all think it's gonna absorb some to our brains, you know, and Some does, but not enough, you know.
Speaker 3:Sometimes having a Spanish speaking spouse makes it easy to get away with non-speak.
Speaker 2:Right, it gives you an excuse. You don't have to struggle for dear life. You know when you're out doing something. So, walter, same question to you Give me a k Padre and a k Malo.
Speaker 1:For me is the same coin with it. Both sides of the coin, they, you know, being more relaxed into regulations and being relaxed into ethnicity, life, doubt being that you know like, no, not so many controls in government or or just a society in general being with so many rules and regulations, and, and on the other side of that particular coin, we have the, the lack of. Let's see, you know like, you see more potholes on the, on the street, you see, you know, holes that they have. No, nobody put a piece of wood and it's the middle of the night and you know somebody by fall, and that's always the same thing. The other way that you have, you know, the lack of a Signage or the lack of, you know, more bylaws or in order to make it more orderly, but at the same time, I really enjoy the freedom to have that. You know like, yeah, the other day somebody was stopped with no seat belt and the police asked him to put on the seat belt and suddenly you have this pickup truck with 20 or 30 years.
Speaker 1:A workaholic stand on the highway in the back of the truck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do they get by with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the answer to the police officer was their special.
Speaker 4:And I have to add for Walter, the weather. And the reason I have to add this is because I can't tell you how many times a week I am showed the weather app and what it's doing in Canada and how cold it is and how much snow is falling, and I have to add one more to you that you miss completely is the food the food is amazing and so many options around here.
Speaker 2:It's just it.
Speaker 1:Yes it's pretty good and well. Thank you very much for having us. If anybody else need more help with building or any suggestions that we can help, please, you know they can contact you and send us an email at expatslikeus at gmailcom and we will pass it on to you or share it with you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, thank you. It's on Facebook, yeah, or Facebook, or we're on TikTok. Now I don't quite understand it, but we are.
Speaker 3:We don't know how long that'll last.
Speaker 2:Right, I don't even know what it is.
Speaker 4:Find us there, right, you need to add a 14 year old to your crew, right, exactly?
Speaker 2:Exactly Well. Walter and Shawnee, thank you so much for sharing your story of building a home in Mexico and for the great tips and insights you provided. We'll look forward to your housewarming party in the near future.
Speaker 1:Thank you you know.
Speaker 2:thank you, guys. In each episode of expats like us, we're going to teach you a new Mexican slang word. This is something you may not find in your phrase book or your online Spanish class or your Spanish app or wherever you're learning your Spanish. Instead, this is a term used primarily by Mexican Spanish speakers. Today's word is Tokayo Tokayo. How do you spell that?
Speaker 1:T-O-C-A-Y-O.
Speaker 2:Okay, tokayo. What does Tokayo mean?
Speaker 1:It's a nickname given to anyone who shares your first name.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that would be like um geez. I can't think of an English word that would be that equivalent.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think there is one.
Speaker 2:That is a slang word. It sure is All right. Thank you very much, erica Kowalski. From Me, vita Margarita, we'd love to hear your thoughts on today's topic. Just look up expats like us on Facebook or send us an email at expatslikeus at gmailcom. You can also see the video version of today's discussion and all of our discussions on our YouTube page Follow, like, subscribe and leave us a review. Thank you to our guests, walter Vittorell and Shawnee Lancidal for joining us for this episode, and thanks to our team, chris and Erica Kowalski and Sherry Bussett, and thanks especially to all our viewers and listeners, and thanks to everyone who interacts with us on social media. I'm Bob Bussey. Until next time, remember, our lives are not defined by geography or our physical location, but by memories, events, people and places that span the globe.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
